.308 o/s
General Category => PC Upgrade and Repair => Topic started by: butt on December 27, 2010, 11:19:09 AM
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Been holding off on a new video card since early this summer, but recently decided go ahead and move twoards an upgrade.
My current card is a sapphire 4850 w/ 512 mb of ram.
The default settings are:
GPU clock :500mhz
Memory clock : 750mhz
I'd like to stay w/ the ATI chipset, but if an argument for an Nvidia card could be made, I'd be open to hear to the pros/cons.
I definetly want a full G of ddr 5 ram, as I'd imagine this should greatly improve graphics/preformance ingame. One thing I've noticed, (on some cards anyway) the greater the ram the less streaming processing units. (Wheres tarsier when you need him? :P )
If you have suggestions for me, please post links to the product, as well as what you feel is an important +/- 's of each. thx!
Butt
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http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150448&cm_re=radeon_hd_5750-_-14-150-448-_-Product (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150448&cm_re=radeon_hd_5750-_-14-150-448-_-Product)
good price 2
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What kind of motherboard do you have? If it can support Crossfire or SLI (and you have the PSU to handle two cards) the performance now actually almost doubles when adding a second card (in the past you would get like a 30% bump). Since the technology works great now, I went with a GTX460, and figure to get a second one when my framerates start being inadequate (bought a Corsair 850W PSU just for the upgrade room). Have an old school Intel Q9450, but it's plenty as the GPU does most of the heavy lifting at high res (1920x1080). I play almost all games at full 1080P and the GTX (and my old CPU) appear to run everything just fine, so far.
This way when I need a performance bump I will get (what at the time will be an older) GTX460 for likely around a C-note, and that should be all I need, instead of upgrading platforms.
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http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131188&cm_re=p5kc-_-13-131-188-_-Product (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131188&cm_re=p5kc-_-13-131-188-_-Product)
thats my mobo
e8400
4G 1066 ddr2
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Personally I don't get caught up in stream processing units and texel counts or tesselation or anything of the like, I just prefer good gameplay with some eye candy. All the specs looks nice, and your 5.7 liter V8 might have 400HP and 475 ft-lbs of torque, but that doesn't mean a 300bhp 4-cylinder turbo won't take it in the quarter mile.
I'm a big fan of tech report, and for 'their' money, they picked this rig with the GTX460 (http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/20138/6 (http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/20138/6)). Here is a snapshot of the 460 using BadCo2 (which actually takes more hardware to run than CODBO - http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/19242/9 (http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/19242/9)).
Ultimately, it depends what resolution you play at. The more memory on the card, the easier the card will handle high resolution. If your monitor does not support 1920x1080 (or greater) the higher ram won't be utilized. DDR type is important, and generally newer is better (e.g. DDR5 is better to have than DDR4) but different cards play different games better as well. Another factor is noise, not sure if that matters to you or not, as well as length, since I have a mid-tower case and a Radeon 5970 won't fit in mine, for example. Another item is power. The top-flight cards take two PCI-e 6 pin + 8 pin connectors (for one card!). My PSU does not have enough of those connectors (enough for SLI using the GTX460/470 line, but not the 500 class).
Another excellent card for its price range is the 5850. Significantly cheaper than its upscale brother, but holds its own quite nicely (and this card is a point-blank steal for the price: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131386&cm_re=radeon_5850-_-14-131-386-_-Product (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131386&cm_re=radeon_5850-_-14-131-386-_-Product)) <~ the 5850 usually averages about $50 higher. The Radeon is nice as you can fit 3 monitors to it (not sure if that matters to you).
I think the ATi series (or AMD now?) does have some transcoding acceleration, but DVD-FAB uses CUDA which spins up the GPU when transcoding from DVD to MP4 (again, not sure if that matters to you) and cuts the digital conversion time by about half vs. using the CPU (with my quad core). I've been buying stuff on iTunes (movies too) lately, so this is less of a factor for me, just throwing it out there. For the money tho, as I am writing this, I would read into (google) that Powercolor 5850, that's damn impressive for it's price point, just make sure it doesn't have any known issues. The 5850 would pretty much own my GTX460, and it's selling for less than I got my GTX460! I had to go nVidia since I have an SLI mobo, but the 5850 might be a better choice for a single-card system (and your mobo supports Crossfire, your only upgrade down the road might be the PSU for a second card).
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Thanks for the detailed feedback!
Ultimately, it depends what resolution you play at. The more memory on the card, the easier the card will handle high resolution. If your monitor does not support 1920x1080 (or greater) the higher ram won't be utilized. DDR type is important, and generally newer is better (e.g. DDR5 is better to have than DDR4) but different cards play different games better as well.
As to resolution I play on, right now I dumb things down as to reduce lag ingame. But heres my monitor.
Samsung SyncMaster 2220WM Black 22" Widescreen LCD Monitor (22", 1680x1050, 5ms, DVI)
Have an LG , but thats set up as my TV.
http://www.lg.com/levant_en/computer-products/monitors/LG-lcd-M237WA.jsp (http://www.lg.com/levant_en/computer-products/monitors/LG-lcd-M237WA.jsp)
In a perfect world, as to gaming, I'd like to run as high a resolution as possible w/out lagging due to the GPU bogging down. Also, if my current monitors dont support as high a resolution, I don't want that to influence a card purchace. I'd rather have a card that can do more than I need, and be able to swap out monitors later.
DDR type is important, and generally newer is better (e.g. DDR5 is better to have than DDR4) but different cards play different games better as well. Another factor is noise, not sure if that matters to you or not, as well as length, since I have a mid-tower case and a Radeon 5970 won't fit in mine, for example. Another item is power. The top-flight cards take two PCI-e 6 pin + 8 pin connectors (for one card!).
Watercooled, so noise isnt a problem. Case size isn't a problem, is my wood case, could fit a surfboard in this thing. Power supply is fine. Planned ahead on this side of things. Is 800w - w/ 4 of both 6 & 8 pin connectors.
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the 5850 usually averages about $50 higher. The Radeon is nice as you can fit 3 monitors to it (not sure if that matters to you).
Where did u find this. I don't know if it can do 3 I believe that it will only do 2 monitors, mine also has 3 ports but only 2 work at a time :(
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Dark, you need a Displayport to VGA (or displayport to DVI or HDMI) adapter and it will pick up the third monitor.
Butt, I guess the ultimate question is: what's yer price range??
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Butt, I guess the ultimate question is: what's yer price range??
The PowerColor AX5850 you posted would be doable. Although my cherry pickin spidysence would probably kick in once I get ready to make the plunge, and I'd look for something w/ a MIR.
I was really disapointed in the newegg boxing day sale this year. Was hoping to pick something up there, but the choices were pathetic. Will probably wait and see if they have anything worth while on their new years day sale.
Its really difficult for me to justify the pricepoint of a GPU when I compare it to mobo prices. My current GPU was a hand me down, so I may want to look at the used market as well. (Again, wheres Tarsier when I need him? He always seemd to have a line on quality used stuff on that PC forum hes involved in. Turd didnt reply to my PM a while back :'( lol )
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Newegg is having its 10 year anniversery sale.
What about this one?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125342&nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL011111&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL011111-_-EMC-011111-Index-_-DesktopGraphicsVideoCards-_-14125342-L04A (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125342&nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL011111&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL011111-_-EMC-011111-Index-_-DesktopGraphicsVideoCards-_-14125342-L04A)
Is $89.99 after MIR
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At the resolutions you will be playing, it's a good performer for the price: http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2010/09/13/nvidia-geforce-gts-450-review/6 (http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2010/09/13/nvidia-geforce-gts-450-review/6)
If you can swing the 5850, that will be enough card for you for a couple years, on top of being able to handle full 1080P playing resolutions should you upgrade your monitor. But at the same time, you can argue that you when you get your 1080P monitor, the 5850 will be cheaper too.
That said, if you're not a sucker for eye candy (personally, as much as I like graphics, I just don't like jagged lined - once the jagged lines are gone, the excess AA/AF and field of view are less important to me), the 450 at $90 is very good deal.
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If you can swing the 5850, that will be enough card for you for a couple years, on top of being able to handle full 1080P playing resolutions should you upgrade your monitor. But at the same time, you can argue that you when you get your 1080P monitor, the 5850 will be cheaper too.
That said, if you're not a sucker for eye candy (personally, as much as I like graphics, I just don't like jagged lined - once the jagged lines are gone, the excess AA/AF and field of view are less important to me), the 450 at $90 is very good deal.
yeah, thats the deal. I am stuck between the pros v cons of an overall upgrade. Its a tough time to make a decision on upgrading mobo/ram/CPU when one looks at the current games played.
On one hand, the geek in me always wants faster, but the realist in me understands that current/future PC games will continue to be limited by the port to PC from console game development. PC gamers are screwed by porting. We can have the best of the best, but games are released to the lowest common denominator (consoles). So, whats the point of going cooko for cooco puffs on hardware these days, when games are being dumed down for console fanboys?
I dont see another "major" game purchace untill BF3 (and maybe not even then - if no demo recorder) so, with that in mind, I just want better than 512 MB of DDR3, which is what I am working with now.
Might look at the 5570's. Just not sure ???
Oh I missed the price on the link. the "email special" price was actually $84.99 after MIR.
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Well, usually with the console, the interface itself is dumbed down. The graphics they still try to make pretty snazzy.
But at the same time, we are mostly first person shooter folk, so it's not like we're strolling through the woods in this game like Syberia (although my wife loved that game).
What I've noticed over time is that the money shot is the GPU. IF you have a decent CPU, the GPU does the rest. Your CPU is the playmaker. It just needs to keep up with your left-wing sniper. He just needs to feed him the puck.
My CPU is a couple generations old, but my GTX460 is recent and I can play all the current games with eyecandy on.
BTW, how did you like Half life 2?
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Its ok. I've stopped playing somewhere with the boat. I get tired of the "hunt and peck" games pretty quick. The "do this, or find that" game experience isn't my favorite. I was enjoying crysis SP much more, but my PC freezes all the time, so not been playing it either.
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Was reading the article you posted.
How can a card have less RAM, but be faster?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814500173&cm_re=768MB_GTX_460-_-14-500-173-_-Product (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814500173&cm_re=768MB_GTX_460-_-14-500-173-_-Product)
This card was rated over the 5770 & GTS 450
"However, the choice between GTS 450 and HD 5770 is complicated by price cuts in the 768MB GTX 460. Over the last week we've seen card for as little as £115, though prices have adjusted to £130 since then. The 768MB GTX 460 is roughly 30 per cent faster than either the GTS 450 or the HD 5770, and is therefore a much better investment than either."
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2010/09/13/nvidia-geforce-gts-450-review/8 (http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2010/09/13/nvidia-geforce-gts-450-review/8)
Been doing some looking, and may wait till the card you first suggested gets back in stock. Just not sure what to do. When I was given this card, it was such an upgrade from what I had. Was "night and day" better for 2142. Now playing the games w/ higher requirments, I am running everything on medium just to keep pace.
One last side note, do the newer ATI cards support 3D?
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The ram is just a matter of having the capability of drawing on large displays (obviously it takes more pixels to store graphics data for 1920x1200 pixels than 1680x1050), the GPU frequency is what is faster on certain cards, and does all the work. The GTX460-768 is my card. If I were playing on a huge 2560x1900 resolution, it would not have enough juice, but the GPU is very quick on that card for my 1920x1200 resolution.
I think as far as 3D, any card should support it, it's just a matter of having the right app and glasses. The pixel shift is pretty simple for 3D, I would think any card should be able to handle that. As far as 3D gaming, that might be a different story.
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Ahhh, I see.
Found another test that showed the 6850. http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2010/12/05/the-best-graphics-card-for-black-ops/1 (http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2010/12/05/the-best-graphics-card-for-black-ops/1)
Looks like its neck and neck w. the 5850 for the most part. Untill aa gets a bump.
Any idea why so little change in the two? Generally when they've released a new #/series, there was some preformance bump.
I did learn about the difference between 2.0 and 2.1 Seems cards w/ 2.1 support are getting "pre-wired" (very loosly translated) for 3.0 support. I also am looking at the memory interface bump in the newer cards.
Getting my options narrowed down to 3-4 cards, 2 of which are out of stock :(
EDIT:
unforgiven had me look @ this one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161348 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161348)
May have figured out the 5850 vs the 6850 question... Looks like the 5850 needs 2 - 6 pin connectors. Where the 6850 only needs 1.
Perhaps the change in series number reflects better power usage? Perhaps just something new to go with the official AMD branding change? hell, I dont know. The 6850 was not included in the power usage charts.
EDIT2 lol
More info on the 68** series
http://www.tested.com/news/tested-amd-radeon-hd-6870-6850-video-cards/1197/ (http://www.tested.com/news/tested-amd-radeon-hd-6870-6850-video-cards/1197/)
http://www.pcworld.com/article/208189/amd_radeon_hd_6800_series_is_the_new_midrange_graphics_champ.html (http://www.pcworld.com/article/208189/amd_radeon_hd_6800_series_is_the_new_midrange_graphics_champ.html)
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O dam, I didn't know the 6850 was only $179!
That's a schweet deal!
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O dam, I didn't know the 6850 was only $179!
That's a schweet deal!
thinking 6850 (thx unforgiven 4 link)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131374&cm_re=6850_radeon_hd-_-14-131-374-_-Product (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131374&cm_re=6850_radeon_hd-_-14-131-374-_-Product)
$170 after MIR
or
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161348 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161348)
$165 after MIR
Only difference I see between the two other than slight price difference is the PowerColor has a newer OpenGL version
From what I am reading the 6850 is easily OC'd to 6870 speeds. I'd like the additional Mini DisplayPort of the 6870's, but the price starts creeping into "silly" money for a GPU.
Also, another + for the PowerColor, is I went to their website, and they are adding an additional year on the listed warranty for all 6800 series cards. So instead of a 2 year, it carries a 3 year parts/labor warranty.
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thinking 6850 (thx unforgiven 4 link)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131374&cm_re=6850_radeon_hd-_-14-131-374-_-Product (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131374&cm_re=6850_radeon_hd-_-14-131-374-_-Product)
$170 after MIR
Ordered this tonight. Should get it next week sometime. Then the "fun" of re-working the H2o cooling system :'( oh joy!
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Schweet!
You don't have to watercool the card ya know, ya can leave that one with the fan, the new ones are near silent to begin with. I'd hold on watercooling that one until you need to OC to get value out of it.
My computer is actually stock, so far haven't seen a need to crank it up. Kinda like the stability!
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Yeah, I hear ya.
But the 4850 is tied into my loop, and will have to re-work that part of the tubing.
Question then becomes, do i use a 4x120 radiator to cool my CPU and OC the shit out of it? Or - go back to an aircooled CPU and ditch the watercooling all together?
Kinda leaning twoards finally giving the 8400 a real strong boost and see what happens. For their time, they were said to be a stong OC'er. All the 6850 reviews I read (and benchtests) were based on running them on bad ass rigs - quad processors, plenty of top end ddr3, Windows 7, ect. I don't expect to get those kind of fps on this rig. Amazing how fast this stuff can get dated, lol. But anyway, This mobo is the replacment I got from the RMA. Have not had any issues with it like the last one. I've got the new power supply that has plenty of cajones for the job. Would be a shame to not see what it can do.
Blackduck had sent me some info on the procedure, but think he was looking at a different version of bios. I never could figure it out from the directions. Wouldn't take long for me to google a "how to" on it.
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Is the 4850/sink loop compatible with the 6850?
The cooling mounts are usually the same spot. If the sink doesn't bump into any ram or capacitors, could easily be just a swap.
I think your CPU should be enough with that card (for gaming). I wouldn't worry too much about overclocking yet until you see a lack of performance.
I used to be like Tarsier, and overclock my machine so notepad would be super fast, but now it's on a need basis.
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Is the 4850/sink loop compatible with the 6850?
The cooling mounts are usually the same spot. If the sink doesn't bump into any ram or capacitors, could easily be just a swap.
Dunno. I'll look into it though. I've got the old hsf in a box in the garage. Once the new card gets here I'll compare the mounting holes. An uneducated guess would be that there not. The review articles mention that the new chip was smaller in design, than the 58** series.
If I do eventually watercool the GPU, I'll wait for a good year or two. Removing the stock cooler is an insta-void on the 3 yr warantee. Think I'll get some miles on it before start tinkering around with it.
I think your CPU should be enough with that card (for gaming). I wouldn't worry too much about overclocking yet until you see a lack of performance.
I used to be like Tarsier, and overclock my machine so notepad would be super fast, but now it's on a need basis.
I've got a nice chunk of change (not to mention time) tied up in the radiator/pump/custom built case. Would be a shame not to try a heavy OC on the CPU if its going to be all thats left on the loop.
Problem is Blackduck has found him a new woman, and its awful tough catching him online anymore (AU timezone).
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Card is due sometime today.
As to the driver, dont think I'll bother w/ the install disk (unless there are utilites on disk)
But, should I download the latest driver from PowerColor, or just download from AMD?
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Me thinks _ AMD.
I always use that site.
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Usually the producer of the card will point you to the AMD site. If they have a different version, I use the different version. I'm kinda old school though, I don't upgrade anymore unless I notice problems in games. Then I update drivers. My nVidia driver is like 6 months old in my rig, haven't felt the need to update since all the games work ok.
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Yeah, went w/ AMD. Tried the download from PowerColor, but I could piss a stream faster than their download bandwidth can handle.
Card is awsome! Its amazing how much is omited graphics wise, when running in lower settings. Bc2 looks much better. Black Ops looks much better as well. Also not getting the game freezes I was getting in blops. Loading into game at the end of each round still takes longer than others, but I think thats an ATI/AMD thing. This card should handle anything I throw at it for several years (keeping in mind the console port trend). If and when I am in need of an upgrade, I'll pick up a used 6870 for $50 on ebay in 2013 and run in crossfire w/ a true 2x16 capable mobo.
Untill then, probably done w/ upgrades :P
Except for potentially Win 7 and DDR3 (my mobo has slots for both DDR2&3)
Thanks to everyone that offered their views on this thread! Much appreciated.
Butt