.308 o/s

General Category => Shade Tree => Topic started by: butt on December 21, 2012, 11:09:14 AM

Title: Pre-Ban Purchace Ideas
Post by: butt on December 21, 2012, 11:09:14 AM: Video was posted Dec 2, 2012 so no connection to any shooting... That said, anyone that was thinking about a AR or high capacity magazine should do so asap.

Its an ok video, but dont know why they added the 10/22. Its a gun for a child and no real self defense applications when compared to the other available options. But, its an ok video. Never thought about their idea of just buying the ar15 receiver, to have it grandfathered before a ban. 8)

5 Guns to buy before a potential ban (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y88VNIeNSZo#ws)
Title: Re: Pre-Ban Purchace Ideas
Post by: Hamltnblue on December 21, 2012, 07:14:51 PM: Hey Butt
Just popping in
I don't think there will be a ban, at least fingers crossed. We had one several years ago.
I was picking up my shiny new Dillon XL650 reloading press the other day and noticed the AR's were all gone.
The store owner said that on Monday they had a run after the Obama speech. I was at a gun show last weekend and they were wall to wall. As of today another gun store owner told me there is a waiting list everywhere for them. Also any pistol with a 15 or more capacity is now hard to find. Good thing is I just picked up a Sig 226 Tacops with Four 20 round clips just 2 weeks ago :)
.
Title: Re: Pre-Ban Purchace Ideas
Post by: butt on December 22, 2012, 12:47:03 PM: Thanks Hamelton. Appreciate the input. Been PM'ing Tarsier some questions and getting some great feedback.

Think what I want is an ar15 that will shoot the 7.62 x 39. I've got an old surplus sks and dont want to add a second round in the mix (and, not a fan of .223)

With as dead as the work front has been, I wont be able to float the whole thing at once, so will put my cherry picking skills to work, getting it a part at a time :)

Are different manufactures parts completely interchangeable?

So need to find a stripped lower???
Title: Re: Pre-Ban Purchace Ideas
Post by: tarsier on December 22, 2012, 04:51:43 PM: Hi Guys,

When I bought my AR, I picked up a "blemished", Stag, stripped lower for $100. I pieced the whole rifle together over the next few weeks. I did a complete, barreled upper (DPMS oracle) and a lower parts kit (Palmetto State Armory) that included the stock, grip, and all the lower parts.

EDIT: links to posted companies
http://dpmsinc.com/ (http://dpmsinc.com/)

http://palmettostatearmory.com/ (http://palmettostatearmory.com/)

If done that way, you've got the following on your shopping list:

-stripped lower
-lower parts kit (includes pins, trigger assy, trigger guard, safety selector, mag release, bolt release, etc)
-grip
-buttstock (to include buffer, spring, and buffer tube)
-and either a barreled upper receiver or all the associated parts: (upper receiver, bolt carrier group, charging handle, barrel, gas block, gas tube)

One of the most popular non-standard calibers is the 300 blackout. It's a .556 case with the end cut off, opened up with a die, and a .30 caliber projectile put in place. Some manufacturers are actually producing it for retail sale. Reloaders can produce their own with a die set, a saw, and some .556 brass. The best part is that the only modification that has to be done to the rifle is the barrel. The bolt carrier group can stay because the rim of the case is the same. And the mags are still compatible because the case overall length stays the same too. No loss of mag capacity.

Going with a completely different caliber, such as the 7.62x39 will require a few more changes to the rifle. The barrel, obviously, will have to be matched accordingly. Since the case differs, the bolt carrier group, to include the extractor and ejector will have to be specific to the caliber. Magazines will have to have the proper followers too, and mag capacity will be decreased as the round is larger in diameter. As the case overall length is less than a .556, the lower receiver may be interchanged with the standard ar piece. Some manufacturers sell complete uppers in different calibers.

Going with a longer caliber, such as... .308 ;), would require a receiver with a longer (front to back) opening for the magazine. This moves you into the next tax bracket for all other purposes. The ar-10 is the Armalite designation for such a rifle. A cool piece, but nearly double the price for a similarly outfitted rifle.

Here's a .300 blackout compared to the .556 standard ar round:

(http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/aac_300blk.jpg)
Title: Re: Pre-Ban Purchace Ideas
Post by: butt on December 22, 2012, 09:33:28 PM: Some good reading on the 7.62x39 FAQ's
http://www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=558 (http://www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=558)

EDIT:
Whats this FFL for?

Quote
Obtaining a Federal Firearms License (FFL) is necessary if you want to sell guns to the public, order guns in bulk or conduct certain other gun-related transactions such as performing a background check on a potential retail gun buyer. The FFL is issued only by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF). Although firearms licenses are not issued automatically, they are not particularly difficult to obtain if you are serious about becoming a gun dealer or collector

I just want to buy a gun (or a gun part, in this case). Generally, to buy a firearm, I just have to fill out the brady bill questionnaire, wait the required time, and they do a phone call background check.
Title: Re: Pre-Ban Purchace Ideas
Post by: Hamltnblue on December 23, 2012, 10:10:28 AM: There is no wait time in PA. You pick your handgun, they do a phone check and you have it in hand in 10-15 minutes.
The reload press is just about ready. Been taking my time and studying while I set it up for the first time.
Title: Re: Pre-Ban Purchace Ideas
Post by: tarsier on December 23, 2012, 06:30:20 PM: Dillon's going to be a great press for you. Those things are really nice. A little envious of the blue team. I'm still loading on a Lee progressive. I've got it tweaked to work like clockwork, but it was a little tricky getting going. Dillons are precision machines.

Just make sure to wear eye protection. Primers detonating is the only thing that scares me when I load.

I'd recommend CCI primers most highly. I've chopped them up pretty good with my press and have yet (knock on wood) to have one pop on me. The worst is when a crimped primer case slips in the mix. New ones never want to seat.

If you don't have a source for components, I recommend precision delta very highly for fmj bullets. You have to buy at least 2000 at a time, but you can mix and match. http://www.precisiondelta.com/ (http://www.precisiondelta.com/)
Title: Re: Pre-Ban Purchace Ideas
Post by: tarsier on December 24, 2012, 11:56:50 AM: I spent a little time browsing gunbroker this morning.

I think it's a little too late to buy a stripped lower. They're going for $250 or more, each.

Whole ar rifles are going for well over 2x their regular retail prices.

Apparently everyone is a little panicked.
Title: Re: Pre-Ban Purchace Ideas
Post by: Hamltnblue on December 25, 2012, 09:19:57 AM: Quote from: tarsier on December 23, 2012, 06:30:20 PM
Dillon's going to be a great press for you. Those things are really nice. A little envious of the blue team. I'm still loading on a Lee progressive. I've got it tweaked to work like clockwork, but it was a little tricky getting going. Dillons are precision machines.

Just make sure to wear eye protection. Primers detonating is the only thing that scares me when I load.

I'd recommend CCI primers most highly. I've chopped them up pretty good with my press and have yet (knock on wood) to have one pop on me. The worst is when a crimped primer case slips in the mix. New ones never want to seat.

If you don't have a source for components, I recommend precision delta very highly for fmj bullets. You have to buy at least 2000 at a time, but you can mix and match. http://www.precisiondelta.com/ (http://www.precisiondelta.com/)
Thanks for the info Tarsier. Planning on setting the last 2 dies later today and punching out my first test batch of 9mm :)
Title: Re: Pre-Ban Purchace Ideas
Post by: butt on December 25, 2012, 09:25:04 AM: Great stuff! Really appreciate the feedback! You've got the squirrel cage in my brain spinning up.

Quote from: Rage414 on December 24, 2012, 11:10:11 PM
Another option if you know skilled people with CNC machine access is to try and get an 80% lower. This just means that the milling process is only 80% complete and is not designated as a firearm part by the ATF. That also means you are not required to use a FFL to buy them. Since the lower is the registered part of an AR15.
WooT! I will keep this idea in my back pocket if I cant find a stripped lower somewhere.

I've got a 3/4 horse drill press collecting dust out in the garage... Was actually thinking about selling it a while back :) Now I'am kinda happy I didnt!

I did a utube search on your suggestion, and found this:
80% AR 15 LOWER RECEIVERS PART 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsaIbFSDB9Y#)
Its a 3 part video, (and as much on what not to do.) Guy really needed a vise ;)
He purchased a 3rd party jig, but you could see the lower was not sitting flat on the drill press all the time. The results are visible in the end product (video 3) Bad part about the jig, they are as expensive as the stripped lower! lol. Someone would have to do several of these to get your money back on the jig investment.

Quote from: Rage414 on December 24, 2012, 11:10:11 PM
I understand the reason behind keeping your ammo supply consistent however it will add cost to your overall build.
Yeah, thats very true. On the positive side, after a few thousand rounds of target/goof-off ammo, that up front cost will be partially offset.
Target ammo for the 7.62 is about half the cost, compared to the .223 target ammo.

If my 'tired' brain is correct 1,000 rounds is 50, 20 rd boxes. If for the sake of ez math, a savings of $5 a box w/ 7.62 - That is a $250 savings per 1,000 rounds. I know thats a little of "G-dub's fuzzy math", but I'd have to weigh the ammo cost vs initial build cost.

I just want to get ownership of a lower prior to a ban... We can iron out the other stuff in the months/years to come.

Quote from: Rage414 on December 24, 2012, 11:10:11 PM
Another thing to consider is to get a few 30 round mags while you still can. Right now Magpul the makers of the PMAG are trying to manufacture as many black 30 round mags as they can.
What online companies do you use/recommend? I am a penny pincher. Would appreciate links to any companies that have the best prices :)
Title: Re: Pre-Ban Purchace Ideas
Post by: tarsier on December 25, 2012, 08:00:35 PM: You could try preordering with midwayusa at this point. Everybody else is totally out and backordered.

The downside is that you're only allowed to backorder 2 of each mag type. Upside is that price is unaffected by this whole thing.

I put an order in for another 6 mags, through them, just to see what happens.

Didn't even think of that 80% lower. That's right up Butt's alley. Great part is the resale value of the jig. And i'm pretty sure you can ebay it with no FFL or disallowed item type issues. As long as you're good to go with a decent jig and a good drill press, you're golden
Title: Re: Pre-Ban Purchace Ideas
Post by: butt on December 31, 2012, 03:38:01 PM: Quote from: tarsier on December 24, 2012, 11:56:50 AM
I spent a little time browsing gunbroker this morning.

I think it's a little too late to buy a stripped lower. They're going for $250 or more, each.

Whole ar rifles are going for well over 2x their regular retail prices.

Apparently everyone is a little panicked.

I am sad to report, I think your right :-\
I couldnt even find an 80% lower, so I took one last swim through online and local dealers:
Online sites are all out of everything. Some manufactures have posted it may be mid-summer before they get new stock available. I called 15+ local dealers and its the same story. One guy had some stripped lowers he was selling. But he had them listed on gunbroker.com He said he was getting $400 ea and wouldnt go below that price.

We have a gun show this weekend and I was hoping against hope I might stumble onto something there. But one of the local dealers that I talked to (also has a booth at the local gun shows - did the Ft. Worth show last week) He said stripped lowers were not to be found. Also said the same thing Tarsier said, full built ar's were going for 2-3 x's their normal asking price. I asked him about steel case 7.62x39 ammo, and even those prices were crazy! Sounding like its not worth making the trip this weekend. That was going to be my gift to myself this year, lol! Figured I could at least get a good deal on some ammo.

On the positive side of all this, it makes for interesting discussion. I've moved the topic to 'Shade Tree' area of the forum. Its a DYI hobby in many ways, so I guess thats a better place than the general area. I saw some good videos when doing my research, so will make a topic for firearm related you tube videos.

Guess, if you gun guys see a 80% in stock somewhere, give me a heads up.