.308 o/s
General Category => PC Upgrade and Repair => Topic started by: butt on March 22, 2012, 08:12:37 PM
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Wont be ingame much if at all, untill I get current problem resolved.
PC is shutting off randomly. No rhyme or reason. Not under load. Just shuts off. Like someone flipped the breaker. No BSOD.
Is there a windows error report I can find to help troubbleshoot?
Will go ahead and post this and edit as needed. Already lost power once while typing ;D errgh, lol
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check your power supply..
How?
does it just turn off, or do you get the BSOD?
Does it try to reboot?
Turns off. No BSOD
Yes, it reboots. After the "your computer did not shut down properly, do you want to launch in safe mode" countdown screen.
maybe try some different memory????
Going to remove one stick at a time, and see if it continues.
Not going to buy more RAM. Going to avoid the "darts at the dart board" troubble shooting this time. By the time I'd buy different RAM, mobo, power supply, to check if they work better, I am 2/3rds the way to a new build. Not doing that.
have you added any new devices lately?
Nope.
Started about a week ago, after a GPU driver update. Tried to uninstall driver, then tried to do a system restore - neither changed the situation. Tried reformating old HD. Then tried different HD. Same deal on both. Got some good ideas from Tarsier last night. Will try those and report back as time allows.
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I feel your pain bud! I would start with power supply first or if it runs long enough see how the Temp is doing on the CPU. Hope to see you back soon man.
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Heres some SS from the MSI utility. Maybe it will show something I am overlooking
(http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/campfire2/CC1.png)
(http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/campfire2/CC2.png)
(http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/campfire2/CC3.png)
(http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/campfire2/CC4.png)
(http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/campfire2/CC5.png)
(http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/campfire2/CC6.png)
(http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/campfire2/CC7.png)
In the event I posted something (system info) I shouldnt have, someone let me know. thx :P
Oh, what about the voltage to the RAM? Is that set right?
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>:( Can't see the screenshots from work. I'll take a look this evening and see if I can offer any advice.
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im i reading that right that the ram is set at .7500V???
it should be on the DDR3 card at what voltage it should run at i believe.. dont have one in front of me to verify.
I see it at 1.5000 seen here:
DRAM voltage. Isnt that right?
(http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/campfire2/CC6.png)
What I dont understand is why I am seeing 667 mhz?
seen here:
(http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/campfire2/CC5.png)
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^ Windows 7 - 64
Only have one 4G stick of ram installed right now. Checking the ram to see if I have a bad stick.
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Not sure, cause I can't see the screen shots, but ddr3 is seen by most bios settings, as well as cpu-z, as 1/2 it's speed.
My ddr3 1600 is seen as 800mhz.
Butt, do you have full system specs up anywhere? I want to do a little research on the components you're running.
board, ram, cpu, psu, etc...
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board, ram, cpu, psu, etc...
mobo
MSI P67s-c43
http://us.msi.com/product/mb/P67S-C43--B3-.html (http://us.msi.com/product/mb/P67S-C43--B3-.html)
cpu
i5-2500k
http://ark.intel.com/products/52210/Intel-Core-i5-2500K-Processor-(6M-Cache-3_30-GHz)?wapkw=2500k (http://ark.intel.com/products/52210/Intel-Core-i5-2500K-Processor-(6M-Cache-3_30-GHz)?wapkw=2500k)
psu
OCZGXS850
http://www.ocztechnology.com/ocz-gamexstream-850w-power-supply-eol.html (http://www.ocztechnology.com/ocz-gamexstream-850w-power-supply-eol.html)
RAM
2x4G kit
Patriot
PC3 - 12800
1600MHz
http://www.patriotmemory.com/products/detailp.jsp?prodline=5&catid=34&prodgroupid=196&id=1049&type=1 (http://www.patriotmemory.com/products/detailp.jsp?prodline=5&catid=34&prodgroupid=196&id=1049&type=1)
GPU
Power Color
Radeon HD 6850
http://www.powercolor.com/Global/products_features.asp?id=273 (http://www.powercolor.com/Global/products_features.asp?id=273)
Thanks ;D
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Saw this looking up your power supply: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/292508-28-computer-rebooting-plug-pulled-voltages (http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/292508-28-computer-rebooting-plug-pulled-voltages)
Nothing major on the motherboard though.
Do you have an extra power supply you can swap?
Here's some more info: http://www.techsupportforum.com/forums/f210/power-supply-information-and-selection-192217.html (http://www.techsupportforum.com/forums/f210/power-supply-information-and-selection-192217.html)
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Do you have an extra power supply you can swap?
Here's some more info: http://www.techsupportforum.com/forums/f210/power-supply-information-and-selection-192217.html (http://www.techsupportforum.com/forums/f210/power-supply-information-and-selection-192217.html)
Yeah, but would be a beating. Now that I think about it, I think its only a 550w, but could use it as a temp/trial psu. Going to let this stick of ram run for as long as it will. Not that it means anything, but its gone for a few hours now w/out restarting.
I like TSF.
Noticed Blackduck got a nod at the end of the article. ( Former 308 member from AU )
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550 will definitely be fine for your application.
I run a 550w seasonic in mine, actually. And My 2500k is at 4500mhz 24/7, alongside 16gb (4x4) of 1600mhz ddr3 and an HD7970. At full load i'm pulling just shy of 500w at the wall. That's about 400w, if you figure in efficiency of 80%.
You'll be okay.
You could just plug the power supply into everything, outside your case, to test it. It doesn't need to be mounted.
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Another thing you can try before buying the supply is resetting the CMOS.
I've had mine get corrupted and cause issues in the past.
Other obvious things to check are CPU cooling block secured? Fans all spinning? including cpu and video card?
Remove a stick of ram at a time as noted earlier.
Is the Mobo bios the latest?
Check the motherboard manufacturers site to see if there are any forums or faqs that list the problem.
As far as power supply size I'd recommend the highest you can afford. It's sooo often the part that is skimped on and yet is one of the most important.
Good Luck
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I would do two things: First would be to run memtest 86+ on each stick of ram. Each stick must be tested individually using this program or test will fail. Download free and burn to boot disc at location near bottom of link. I posted page rather than link to download so you can read up on it first. This is what I used to find out my GSkill memory was causing my issues. No problems since installing 16gb Corsair Vengeance kit.
http://www.memtest.org/ (http://www.memtest.org/)
Second would be to have power supply tested, if no place to have done you can get your own tester:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16899109003 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16899109003)
If either of these do not work let us know and we can proceed onto the next thing. Sorry to read you are going through this crap. I know exactly how frustrating it is!!! Hope this helps...
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Another thing you can try before buying the supply is resetting the CMOS.
I've had mine get corrupted and cause issues in the past.
Other obvious things to check are CPU cooling block secured? Fans all spinning? including cpu and video card?
Remove a stick of ram at a time as noted earlier.
Is the Mobo bios the latest?
Check the motherboard manufacturers site to see if there are any forums or faqs that list the problem.
As far as power supply size I'd recommend the highest you can afford. It's sooo often the part that is skimped on and yet is one of the most important.
Good Luck
Tarsier suggested the cmos deal as well. Have not got there yet.
Still on the trying one stick of ram at a time. First one I tried this morning - problem continued. Seconnd stick, and PC is still happy ---> no restart yet in say 8-10 hrs. Will let it run over night and see how it goes.
did you say the problem started after a driver update?.....give me a brief description of what you did, when the problem started.
That was part of it. But have done a complete hard drive wipe and OS reinstall since then. Fresh install of driver yesterday. Think its safe to count that one out. Thanks though.
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If the ram does clear it up I would run it for a few days or so before buying new stuff. It will run fine but just a little slower.
Luckily ram is pretty cheap these days. Also if you do wind up getting some don't mix brands and specs.
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If the ram does clear it up I would run it for a few days or so before buying new stuff. It will run fine but just a little slower.
Luckily ram is pretty cheap these days. Also if you do wind up getting some don't mix brands and specs.
Yeah, it ran over night w/out problem. going to reset the cmos as suggested, and see what that does.
I'll report back later.
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If it's the ram the cmos won't make any difference
It won't hurt to try though
Also write down the settings before resetting it.
The reset procedure usually involves moving a jumper on the board for a few seconds
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I reset the cmos. Had to put the clock back on the right time date. Not sure what other settings you were talking about.
Hey Tarsier, what about my voltages to the ram as seen on the SS taken yesterday? Were they set at the right value? PS, when I do get this all ironed out, you'll have to school me on how to get to 4500mhz as well.
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Sure will, overclocking this chip is the easiest I have ever done. There's really only 2 settings to tweak. Multiplier and voltage.
The ram voltages were set to default, which is fine. 1.5 or 1.55 will be okay either way. Yours defaults to 1.5 which is good.
Glad it looks like this is fixing your problem. Ram is the cheapest of the fixes.
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Sure will, overclocking this chip is the easiest I have ever done. There's really only 2 settings to tweak. Multiplier and voltage.
The ram voltages were set to default, which is fine. 1.5 or 1.55 will be okay either way. Yours defaults to 1.5 which is good.
Glad it looks like this is fixing your problem. Ram is the cheapest of the fixes.
Yep, and thanks!
Keeping fingers crossed. Really do not have the energy for the old "hunt and peck" PC troubble shooting like I used to go through... Working on my PC has gone the way of turning wrenches for auto repair when I was a bit younger. Yeah, the fast cars were alot of fun. Just dont care to do it much anymore.
Now to hope the Patriot RMA process is semi painless. Hopefully no worse than Corsair.
EDIT:
Well piss... So much for the good vibe of success. Died mid RMA form fill in, lol.
And someone tell me this... WHy does the friggin OS keep showing the warning flag in the trey (windows action center) telling me I dont have antivirus now after this crash.... Kept doing this shit earlier in the week when going through this.
Another thing the OS is doing when it dies like this, when I open a new tab, its not remembering "your most popular sites" - 10 boxes with past browsing history remembered. WTF is going on? urrgh
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I'm not sure about the flag in your tray.
The internet history tends to reset itself whenever you crash, BSOD, or "restart improperly", so that's pretty normal.
Do you have a microcenter or tigerdirect nearby? DDR3 is super cheap nowadays. You could grab an 8gb set for under $50, IIRC.
I am feeling your pain. Sorry man.
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Actually, I ran the memtest on both sticks tonight. No errors.
On a side note, was nice to burn an iso w/ 7. Didnt have to go install a secondary burning program for a change.
So, if the RAM passed, guess I am running out of options. Guess I'll try swapping out the power supply tomarrow or Monday when time allows.
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Maybe give OCCT a try. They have a power supply test built in.
I recommend the zip version as there's no installer or registry entries.
It will log your voltages when you run it (if it will run).
http://www.ocbase.com/index.php/download (http://www.ocbase.com/index.php/download)
Maybe a last thing to try before taking it apart?
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By the way
Unless you are running a large air cooler or water I wouldn't raise it to 4.5 gig.
The little bit of performance isn't worth overheating it. Go with something lower like 4.0
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Maybe give OCCT a try. They have a power supply test built in.
I recommend the zip version as there's no installer or registry entries.
It will log your voltages when you run it (if it will run).
http://www.ocbase.com/index.php/download (http://www.ocbase.com/index.php/download)
Maybe a last thing to try before taking it apart?
Gave it a try.
One thing I see, is the 12 v is showing up @ a steady 8.18 v
Not good, right?
(http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/campfire2/OCCT3-1.png)
Is there another utility I can use to doubble check this result?
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Not good at all. Do you have a multimeter? I would put that on one of your unused molex (4 pin) plugs and monitor it from startup to operating. The 12v really shouldn't go below 11.75. The software monitoring isn't perfect, so you'll want to use a meter to make sure it's actually reading that low.
Don't send that ram out just yet. It may have been failing memtest due to undervolting.
I would say, for sure, that your power supply is the culprit if you're actually getting 8v on your 12v line.
Speedfan can give you a second opinion as well, but it's still software monitoring, so it may be off as well. Best bet is to meter it.
http://www.almico.com/sfdownload.php (http://www.almico.com/sfdownload.php) (hotlink in the "download" paragraph).
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Sometimes the Bios will have the voltages as well. If the voltage is 8.18 I'm surprised it's running at all.
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Speedfan shows it at 10.74
(http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/campfire2/1074.png)
Will go look in bios to see if I can find a value.
"May" have a voltage meter. If I do, I'd probably need to look for a u tube vid on how to use it w/out electrocuting myself (I hate working around/with hot wires)
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Multimeter should be set to dc 20v. Red lead to yellow and black lead to black. IIRC there are two black wires, so the one that reads closest to 12v. The only thing that can be done wrong, it to cross the test leads while they're touching the wires. Pretty hard to do.
http://www.ladyada.net/learn/multimeter/voltage.html (http://www.ladyada.net/learn/multimeter/voltage.html)
Plus the molex plugs are all female connectors from the power supply, so they'll be super easy to test with the leads of a standard dmm (digital multi meter).
It really sounds like your power supply though. I would recommend biting the bullet and swapping power supplies to see if it alleviates your problem, at this point. I am pretty sure it will fix you up.
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Same advice as tarsier, my p/s is at 12.8v. Time for a new one for you, good time to upgrade. 8)
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Update:
Swapped out power supply w/ one from another PC (turned out it was only a 500w not a 550w - hope it holds up under the load)
While I was in there, went ahead and pulled mobo and had a look at the back of the board and caps. No burnt spots on the back, and the caps looked fine from what I could tell.
Time will tell if this does the trick. Guess at least if it continues, its pretty much got to be the mobo.
One odd thing that happened. When I rebooted for the first time after swapping out the power supply, I got the windows message: "you must restart your computer to apply these changes." as if I had updated something... dunno. Got that stupid flag telling me I have no antivirus again. urrgh.
EDIT:
Must be something not wanting to play nice w/ the monitoring utilites. Both still show the wonkie 12 v readings.
The one is still at 8.18 and the other is at 10.56
(http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/campfire2/speedfanandOCCT.png)
W/ the MSI utility, it 12v rail shows a full 12+ v
(http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/campfire2/CCpowerocz500w.png)
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Chances are that since you did a fresh install, your machine is going through updates. You will get those messages several times until it catches up.
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Thanks for the offer Venery. Nice of you to throw that out there.
If this issue does boil down to the power supply, I can RMA the 850, and use this one for now. I'll give this one a few days trial before I go through the RMA process. Thanks though. :D
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So, how's it working Butt? The anticipation is killing me.
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So, how's it working Butt? The anticipation is killing me.
lol... sorry. My bad.
"No news, is good news"
Running just fine on the 500w I pilfered from gf's PC.
Have the RMA approved, and will get it sent out in the morning. Has to go to Cali, so probably looking at a few weeks. Thank goodness for 3 year coverage :) still have about 10 months left on the thing.
One small worry I have is when I was fitting the power supply to the wood case build, ( http://308os.com/index.php?topic=13.msg197#msg197 (http://308os.com/index.php?topic=13.msg197#msg197) ) I set it on some wet paint, and a little bit of the security tape peeled off. I'll send them a heads up, so some recieving tech doesnt shlt can my RMA and void the replacment. The "do not remove" sticker is clearly still in tact, but to someone not knowing what I origionally did w/ the power supply might look at it as if it was a little fishy...
Thanks again for your ongoing patients w/ my computer stupidity. I appreciate your (and everyones) help on getting me sorted out once again.
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If they give you a hard time, you can always send them a pic or two of your build, showing that the case was painted. They'll have to be cool with that.
Glad to hear you're machine is doing better. I'm around if you have any more questions.
We're closing on a new house this Friday, moving in Saturday, so my internet access may be spotty for a few days. But I will be around shortly thereafter, so let me know if you end up with more questions.
I may end up with some carpentry questions for you, so be ready...
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I may end up with some carpentry questions for you, so be ready...
Congrats, and you bet. Will be happy to help.
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After some back and fourth w/ tarsier I am going to make a few changes to the rig.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139020 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139020)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813138319 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813138319)
Going to swap out mobos and power supply all together. My thinking here is, I've only got about 10 more months on the warranty for the 850w PS. Once I get that back from RMA, I'll put it on ebay and get what I can get for it. Seeing that I did away w/ the water cooling set up, I do not need as high wattage as I was using before. As to the mobo, I am not sure what I'll do w/ it. Either keep it as a back up, or ebay it as well.
The new mobo is covered for three years, and the new PS is good for 5 years. So, for less than $100 (after I sell off my old stuff), I am extending the coverage on the rig, and hopefully buying some piece of mind for the near future.
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^ Excellent board, that's the one I had before I had to sell my rig (a long story, which I actually owe to everyone, for those who like to read novels). Can't go wrong with that one. I would recommend the HX line from Corsair (when they go on sale - this is the one I had: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139011 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139011)). Near silent and modularity is nice.
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Hey Groove. Hope your doing good :P
Yep, very happy w/ the new stuff. The new power supply is not as quiet as the gf's 500, but not as bad as the 850, so I guess its not that bad.